What would YOU do????

Mission: Kill the enemy in a nearby village
Situatuion: You get to the village at dawn and are scared out of you mind. You don't want to be here, you are not a fighter, but you got drafted...sucks for you. You get to the village and a little 7 year-old boy comes out of a hut with a gun pointed right at you. He aims and gets ready to fire........What do you do????? Do you kill a little boy, that is about to kill you? It's you or him....which do you chose....YOU or HIM?????

Soliders were called "baby killers" at the end of the war, but were the soliders actions justified.......or not?

Kiowa's Death

I know that this is far back in the book but I felt that it was never discussed as it should be. As we all know Kiowa dies a very gruesome death in a field of crap. How would you feel if you let your comrade slip away like Norman Bowker did? Do you think that the solders looked hard enough or gave up to early searching for his body? How would you feel if you died that way?

To those of you who have finished the book!

Do you think that O'briens treatment of the medic who nearly let him die is justifiable? Do you think that you would be able to forgive and forget when someone's mistake nearly costed you your own life?

You surprise me...

Odd, given your response to Dimmesdale, Gregor, John...and others...you guys area all big on responsibility...doesn't a god, or God for the matter, have a certain responsibility to himself and his creation? Did VF EVER really admit he was responsible for his creation's well-being as well as its (his) actions?

Is there ever an excuse

We know that constant exposure to fear and violence can make people do horrible things, but can we--as civilized humans--ever excuse atrocities, even if committed in moments of passion? How do we handle war crimes?

What do you guys think about Henry Dobbins still wrapping his girlfriend's pantyhose around his neck, even after she broke up with him? Does it symbolize or represent the way the soldiers clung to memories and things from home to comfort them, or is it just creepy?

Absolution

Is there any absolution? For anybody?

Let me sleep on it...

Well, Elizabeth, it's like this: I have a horrid secret, but I can't tell you until we are married. Any takers?

What do you think happened to Mary Anne?

At the end of the chapter Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong no one knows exactly what happend to Mary Anne. "If you believed they Greenies, Rat said, Mary Anne was still somewhere out there in the dark. " But what do you think happened to her?

Poems

We just finished writing our "Poems" about the war. Did watching the video about the soldiers and writing your poem effect your take on the book? Emotionally? Is it easier to picture everything in the book now?

Baby Water Buffalo

I know that this is a little bit further back than all the other recent posts, but I'm posting it anyway... so on pages 78-80- right after Curt Lemon was killed, the guys find a baby buffalo and they all stand by and watch as Rat Kiley mutilates the poor animal.

-Why do you think that Rat Kiley displayed his grief in this manner?

"We had witnessed something essential, something brand-new and profound, a piece of the world so startling there was not yet a name for it" (pg 79).

-What exactly was so startling to them? Was is it just the fact that the Baby buffalo was still alive or is there a deeper meaning to it?

Difficult Question

What do you do? Sometimes civilians do not see the whole picture--what appears to be interference may be a mission of mercy that promotes human rights. What we think is spreading democracy is actually the cause of more rebellion and more needless deaths. Who does know the truth? The problem is this: if every individual was allowed to decide what was a "just" cause, then would we ever take a stand on anything? In short, is there a point at which somebody has to decide and the rest have to follow?

You Just Don't Know!

In the chapter, Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong, we are told a story about a girl named, Mary Anne Bell. To me, Marry Anne seem like the feeling many man felt about Vietnam. She was young and innocent and does not know what is going on but at the end she becomes part of Vietnam. "She was part of the land" (116) as Rat explained. Like the men, they had no idea what was going on, but they can never forget about Vietnam because it is part of them. They were all young innocent. Why do you think that O'Brien added this part and told a story with a girl. What does she signify to you?

So Predictable

In the end of Frankenstein, Victor dies and Harold consequently decides to kill himself. Shocking? It shouldn't be. The whole book was pretty easy to figure out.

So, what in your opinion SHOULD have happened? Should Victor have died? Should he have given Harold a Haroldette? Why was Victor so incredibly STUPID?

Feel free to comment.

Should I stay or should I go...

In the section, "On the Rainy River", O'Brien's character decides to flee to Canada in order to escape the draft. He decides to return home and face the humiliation. However, which decision requires more courage: Returning home or dodging the draft?

HOW CAN I KEEP FROM SINGING?

SO in response to the "Lemon Tree" That part really got visual in my mind for some reason. That's really hard to grasp that he could be singing as he's tossing bits and pieces of his buddy down out of a tree. Why do you think that he was singing? Do you think that it was to keep himself from cracking and going out of his mind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA8WGXOMb0E


funny stuff. Do you think it does the book justice?

Lemon Tree!

For the people who have gotten to the part about the "Lemon Tree", you can probably say this is one of the parts of the book that really stuck out to you. Well if you were wondering how the song goes, here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=301T3rf-1Ts

I love Tay Zonday!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLiBKAtOvps

Jensen and Strunk's Friendship

Jensen and Strunk had a huge fight over a knife, and Strunk ended up badly injured with a broken nose and a lot of facial bandaging. After Strunk got back from the medical centers, Jensen was apprehensive, fearing the revenge Strunk may pursue. After much internal strife, Jensen breaks his own nose to prove to stunk they are even. After this little episode, they slowly gain back their trust, and eventually their friendship. They make a pact with each other, saying that if either one of them ends up injured to the point of wheelchair confinement they would kill each other, to save them the agony and disappointment. When Strunk loses his leg due to a mine, immediately he changes his mind about ending it over a leg. Jensen, of course doesn't kill him, but is relieved when he hears that Strunk did die a few days later. In Jensen's position could you honor an agreement with a friend like that even if he wanted you to? Would you want to be killed if you were to lose your ability to walk, or even something more intangible like your sight?

It's not what's under the hood, its how you drive the car.

Why did Victor and Harold use their educations so differently? Harold is sensitive and empathetic...and he initially blames himself for his condition.

Romanticism web site

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/english/melani/cs6/rom.html

Go here. Read. Ruminate regarding romanticism. Reply.

The Legend of Prometheus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4yFE3ZAgLI

Peanut Butter Shelley Time!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2qtX_DK1s&feature=related

Enjoy!

Extremes

In the chapter "How to Tell a True War Story" the narrator talks about generalizing and the truths about war.

"War is hell, but that's not the half of it, because war is also a mystery and terror and adventure and courage and discovery and holiness and pity and despair and longing and love. War is nasty; war is fun. War is thrilling; war is drudgery. War makes you a man; war makes you dead." (80)

These are very extreme comparisons and I'm not saying I don't think all of them could be true about war but it got me thinking how can something so horrible that they describe as nasty, drudgery, and despair be also descried as fun and holiness? Any thoughts?...

???

Feed my Frankenstein.....what does this mean? Could Alice Cooper have meant something by it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojbUdY2ubLo

Romantic?

Some critiques I've read say that Frankenstein shows elements of the "Romantic Movement." Anyone care to point them out?

Just a cheeseburger in paradise...

Why would Shelley select Milton's Paradise Lost as one of the foundation pieces for Harold's education? Consider the roles of "creator" and "created". With whom does Harold identify? Any irony?

What would you do if you were drafted?

The first reaction of Tim O'Brien was to cut town and run when he was drafted. The only thing that held him back was his conscience. Imagine millions of drafted men who delt with the same conscientous problem. How would this effect their proformance in the combat zone? Do you think that they would have the guts to cross the Canadian border unlike O'Brien? Or does Tim O'Brien represent the majority of army men, trying to leave the country but held back by too much pride?

Who's been painting my roses red?!

“Of what a strange nature is knowledge! It clings to the mind, when it has once seized on it, like a lichen on the rock.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQmpKMnDkz0


Take note of how Victor's mood was greatly cheered when his surroundings were glorious and the scenery bright and majestic. The theme of nature’s sublimity, of the connection between human moods and natural surroundings, resurfaces in the monster’s childlike reaction to springtime. Nature proves as important to the monster as it is to Victor: as the temperature rises and the winter ice melts, the monster takes comfort in a suddenly green and blooming world, glorying in nature’s creation when he cannot rejoice in his own. For a moment, he is able to forget his own ugliness and unnaturalness.

So nature=escape from reality? Is the wild and the beauty of the ever-changing season's Harold's Wonderland?

Never Happy

In Chapter 4 of Volume II, Mary Shelley uses Harold to show her disdain for those who are never satisfied.

Harold, in observing the cottagers, states, "I saw no cause for thier unhappiness; but I was deeply affected by it... Yet why were these gentle beings unhappy? They possessed a delightful house (for such it was in my eyes), and every luxury; they had a fire to warm them when chill, and delicious viands when hungry; they were dressed in excellent clothes; and, still more, they enjoyed one another's company and speech, interchanging each day looks of affection and kindness."

To Harold (who has never had a warm home, food to eat, or affection), the cottagers' lot in life is wonderful. However, they are unhappy anyway. Shelley is making the statement that man is not happy without frivolty. Furthermore, Shelley is also saying that to be a human implies an unquenchable thirst.

Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?

The Telephone Game

Is anyone else concerned at the fact that it is now Harold telling his story to Victor telling his story to Walton telling their story to his sister? It's a lot like the telephone game and nothing ever turns out how it is originally supposed to be understood. So, why is Shelley using this technique?

What Moral are they talking about?

On page 20 it talks about a moral being represented behind the thumb. What is that moral and why was it important to put in the book?

Rat Kiley's Stories

To those of you that have read pretty far, do you think that Rat Kiley's story about Mossie's girlfirend Marry Anne is true. If it is, do you think that Mary Anne's fast transformation is just demonstrative of the general change that all young soldiers go through, or do you think she is different?

Follow Dink...You go pink.

What do you think the signficance of this character is? How did parting with Dink affect the soldiers in the troop, and likewise, do you think it affected Poppa-San Emotionally, Spiritually, or Physically.

Vietnam = Iraq?

Considering the fact that this book is set in Vietnam, and the conflict is very much like our occupation of Iraq, does this book either affect your overall feelings of the war in Iraq or at least make you think about our current situation?

Martha

We've already covered some of the relationship between Martha and Cross, but what is the purpose Martha serves? Why does the book open with Cross's obsession? What do you think that symbolizes?

Irony?

Is it irony that the most cautious guy, The one who was the most scared of dying....was the first to die? Why do you think O'brien made Lavender die first? Why do you think that his death stuck to Kiowa so much?

The Things YOU Would Carry

If you were able to only carry one personal item, what would that item be?

Check this for Prometheus

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/giftfire/prometheus.html

Does he have any redeeming qualities?

Victor. He obsesses over his passion--a fascination with creating life from death as opposed to LIVING before he dies. He runs out on his creation. He allows Clerval to put his education hold while he cares for poor, sick Victor. He lets Justine take the fall for his multiple sins. He has to be forced to acknowledge that his creation, his Edmund, have a voice. Yet, the book has his name... why is this his story? Is he really a Prometheus?

On Mutability

We rest; a dream has power to poison sleep.
We rise; one wand'ring thought pollutes the day.
We feel, conceive, or reason; laugh, or weep,
Embrace fond woe, or cast our cares away;
It is the same: for, be it joy or sorrow,
The path of its departure is still free.
Man's yesterday may ne'er be like his morrow;
Nought may endure but mutability!

This passage, from Percy Shelley's "On Mutability," was placed in the text. What is its purpose? Does it establish the mood? Foreshadow impending and constant change? Or is it a universal passage, applicable to everyone, everywhere?

Man v. Monster

So we've reached the point in the novel when Victor finally comes face to face with his creation for the first time since he was created. What did you think of the way Victor reacted and talked to the monster? What about how the monster responded? Who do you agree with?

Was anyone else suprised by how smart and eloquent and LOGICAL the monster was?
Go creation!!

Chauvinists

Does anyone else think that Shelley is slightly harsh on her own sex? Elizabeth, the main female character, easily accepts being given to Victor as his future wife like some kind of chattal. Freaky. And furthermore, later on when Justine is in jail, Elizabeth supports her wholeheartedly. When she is pronounced guilty, Elizabeth suddenly believes her guilty. When she visits her in jail, she suddenly believes her again. Capricious much?

Down with WFCs!!!!

The Future (Dun dun dun)

Does it bother anyone else that people can now be genetically engineered - that the creation of "Frankenstein's monster" is actually possible?

You have only to believe if you wish to achieve. That rhymed. Unintentional.

Eh? Can you really do anything you put your mind to?

Who you think would win in a fight between... a grilled cheese sandwich and a taco?

Does that self-depricating crap actually work on anyone??

So Victor somehow knows in his heart that "the monster"...you know what? I don't like that. It's totally not his fault he's huge and hideous. Let's call him Harold. Victor somehow knows that Harold killed his little brother William. But how does he know that? We don't actually have any proof that Harold is a murdering monster, just that he's a creation run amok.

Do you think that Victor is self-destructive? Like, everything that has happened with him is twice as bad in his eyes, because he has this twisted mindset that he is doomed? He thinks his future is set in stone already and he is going to become a ruined man....self-fulfilled prophecy?

Major kudos if you know whose line the title comes from!!!!

Victor Frankenstein = Owen Meany?

So let's set this up.

Victor Frankenstein has a God complex; Owen Meany has a God complex.

Victor Frankenstein is really intelligent; Owen Meany is really intelligent.

Victor Frankenstein has a dead mother; Owen Meany has a mother who may as well be dead.

Victor Frankenstein's best friend is a Joseph figure; Owen Meany's best friend is a Joseph.

Victor Frankenstein is full of himself; Owen Meany is full of himself.

Victor Frankenstein is impulsive; Owen Meany is impulsive.

Victor Frankenstein loved the same girl since his childhood; Owen Meany loved the same girl since his childhood.

See what I mean? Agree/disagree?

My Deaf Kid is Better Than Your Normal One

Anyone else angry? Having suffered through the discrimination associated with being deaf, how could anyone wish for their child to be deaf? What would possess anyone to be so incredibly dense??

With great gifts...

Does Victor owe anything to his creation? Does anything alleviate this responsibility? Any modern parallels?

Themes and symbols...already???!!!

The stranger tells Walton, “You seek for knowledge and wisdom, as I once did; and I ardently hope that the gratification of your wishes may not be a serpent to sting you, as mine has been.” Destructive knowledge is a major theme throughout this novel, as the consequences of the stranger's OBSESSIVE search for understanding are reavealed (and tragic, as we can well guess).

Walton is much like "the stranger" aka Dr. Frankenstein, in that he is entranced by the opportunity to find out what secrets no one else knows about that nature has to offer. “What may not be expected in a country of eternal light?” he asks.

Walton asks this question in the very first letter to his sister that we read, which epitomizes (yes! I can use that word!) a developing symbol...light=knowledge (or discovery, I suppose)....(help me out here)......?

Walton’s quest to reach the northernmost part of the earth is similar in spirit to Victor’s quest for the secret of life: both seek ultimate knowledge, and both sacrifice the comfort of the realm of known knowledge in their respective pursuits. Additionally, the beauty and simplicity of the phrasing epitomize the eighteenth-century scientific rationalists’ optimism about, and trust in, knowledge as a pure good.

....Thoughts? Agree or disagree??

Full of Himself or Just Proud?

Is Walton really full of himself, thinking that he can do anything and is the greatest person out there for taking on this quest for the betterment of mankind? Or is he just a hard worker that is proud of his acomplishments and should he be? Did he really work for what he knows and can do now?

A Fine Line

What is the difference between true dedication and obsession? Is Walton dedicated to his cause and that is why he has placed it over his family, friends, and own well-being or is he obsessed with it, wanting to know more than any other person, and willing to sacrifice other people’s lives? What stage is he in right now at this point in the book?

What about Walton

"One man's life or death was but a small price to pay for the acquirement of the knowledge I sought..." That particular line is Walton's, but you will see it emerge as a motif throughout the novel. Does knowledge always have a price? Is it worth it?

A little more Lear

If I were pondering essay topics for Monday I would probably be thinking about Edgar. Just pondering, of course...

Can We Candide?

Ah, the unyielding torture of Spring Break homework! Since I'm only about halfway done, I thought I'd ask some questions pertinent to where I am in the text.

Pangloss - An idiot or a true philosopher?
Candide - Is there a being more ridiculous than him?
Cunegonde - Did she ever really love Candide, or was he simply convenient?
Cacambo - The best character of them all??

Discuss.

A little background

Check out this site--especially the last couple of paragraphs.
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/leibnitz.htm

MONEY OR LACK OF TRANING?

In Stupid in America they state that money is not the issue for why students are not learning. Do you think this is true or is it that teachers have a lack in training? Do you think some really don't care at all all?

Crazy?

So we talked about this in class, but I don't think we really had the opportunity to really discuss it. When do you think that Lear became crazy? Was he crazy at the outset of the play, or did he become crazy at a specific point later on? At the end of Act 4, is Lear crazier than ever or is he sane?

Charter Schools

On "Stupid in America" I noticed that a lot of my peers have taken the side of Charter schools. Obviously, such institutions do have their advantages, but how many of us know anything about them outside what was said in the video? Are there any drawbacks? For what reasons might Charter schools not be the end-all say-all to solving education problems? I'm curious to see whether anyone has anything to say on the topic. Discuss?

You've got to be cruel to be kind...

Was Edgar's role in his father's "suicide" an act of cruelty or was it essential to develope their roles and relationship?

High Stakes

What about it? Do you think high stakes tests force growth or put too much emphasis on too small a picture of a student, teacher, or school?

Ambiguous Shakespeare Quotes

Got a favorite ambiguous quote? Feel free to share!

What makes us human?

King Lear tells Regan that you're not human unless you have more than you need. ("Allow not nature more than nature needs...") Then in the storm, King Lear cries out that only the poorest person, who owes nothing to anyone (not even the animals), is truly human ("... the thing itself.") Which do you think is right?

Don't fear Lear--Check this link!

http://www.pathguy.com/kinglear.htm

Stupid in America...

Are we?

Twisted sisters and Edgar

Any thoughts?