Check here for assignment updates, notes on or about the reading, or to ask questions. Please feel free to talk to each other--but keep it civil.
Eng. IV Assignments, information
Frankenstein
APE IV due dates, assignments, etc.
Mar. 28 Movie, Gattica or (my choice-- Mary Shelley bio) Begin Frankenstein April 1-Blog April 2 Chapters 1-4, Frankenstein April 3 Chapter 5 and essays in class April 7 Through Chapter 7 April 9 Through Vol II, Chap. I & II April 21 Through Chap. III of VOLUME III Extra credit for your own copy! In-class writing MC practice
APE III due dates and assignments
Arg. Against Nat'l ID Cards, Ques. 3 p. 616, TIA Mar. 24 MC Practice, 5 Steps, p. 247 Mar. 28 Arg. Paper Peer Reviews April 1 April 2-Begin The Things They Carried ACT Prep Course April 4 FINAL DRAFT ARG. PAPER APRIL 7 MAP TESTING April 8-10 TTTC through p 38 April 11 TTTC through p 61 by April 14 APE III TEST MAY 14 Final Book review May
Considering the fact that this book is set in Vietnam, and the conflict is very much like our occupation of Iraq, does this book either affect your overall feelings of the war in Iraq or at least make you think about our current situation?
If it doesn't, it should. Read teh new Newsweek about how we have set up tribal leaders only to have them go back to archaic religious beliefs that okay killing women who have "shamed" the family,inflicting curfews on womenm, and revoking rights, such as driving. Are we really helping? Is it really our war? Are we changing anything for anybody?
I feel that the conflicts in Vietnam and Iraq are not in fact, very similar at all. First, the primary goal of the Iraqi conflict, locating WMDs, turned out to be unattainable. The second goal however, the destruction of Sadaam Hussein's reign of terror, was already accomplished. As of right now, U.S. troops are mainly quelling terrorist groups and civil unrest while training Iraqi peacekeeping forces to be able to handle their own country. As for Vietnam, the goals were much different, with the stop of communism being the greatest goal. Essentially, Vietnam was about America fighting another country's battle for them, while Iraq is about fighting a battle that the Iraqi people were unable to fight on their own. As for American loss of life, it was by far greater in Vietnam, reaching over 58000 deaths by it's end, and over 350000 casualties for U.S. troops alone. By comparison, 5 years in Iraq have caused just over 4000 deaths.
I totally agree luella. If we dont help them then what is going to happen next to us. Back on the subject, this book does make me think about the war, but it hasn't changed my opinions of the war.
So, Hubbard, you believe that the Iraqi war is really helping the people? As far as I know, all we're doing is triggering a huge war in the middle east. I don't think our intentions are any more pure, either.
Also, you might want to correct your stats. Maybe you left off a zero? I doubt the total loss of life in Vietnam is lower than the total loss of American soldiers.
Even though the book does make me think about our situation in iraq, the comparison between the two is not really fair. The Vietnam War forced participation in missions that had little or no objectives. As the book said, they were simply going town to town burning what they felt like. At least in Iraq there is some order
I agree. I think that in vietnam, people were confused about why we were involved and what the main cause of the war was. However, with Iraq, people knew what started the war, but now the causes have strayed from our main purpose of going over there in the first place. With vietnam, soldiers weren't welcomed home as they are from Iraq; families want their men home from there. But the case wasn't the same when it came to Vietnam
I think the draft really was one of the major things that defined vietnam. There were kids who were really young, rebelious, and not want to be there. The Iraq war has not reached that point yet
I agree with Caligula. I do not think that there is any real reason to still be over in Iraq. After the 9/11 attacks we went over there to defend ourselves; but now, over 5 years later, all we are doing is causing conflict for the middle east. The book does not really affect my opinion on the war. It does make me think more about it though. I didn't really think about what the soldiers were going through until I started reading this book. It puts a lot of things in perspective for me.
I think that the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq are quite similar. Neither are fought on American ground. Also, both are fought not because people were attacking us, but to free people from undemocratic rule rather it being communism during the Vietnam war or fight terrorism and the unfair treatment of the people of Iraq.
I've read a lot of comments regarding the nation's purpose in Iraq and found this article on America.gov so hopefully this will clear up any issues here:
“[W]e cannot ... give up on the hundreds of millions of ordinary moms and dads across the Middle East who want the hope and opportunity for their children that the terrorists and extremists seek to deny them, and that's a peaceful existence,” [-President George W. Bush]
The president welcomed the formation of a moderate coalition in Iraq as a counterweight to the violent extremists in the country.
“[A] moderate coalition signals to the vast majority of the people of Iraq that we have a unity government, that we're willing to reconcile our differences and work together, and in so doing will marginalize those who use violence to achieve political objectives,” Bush said.
[This is me again]
So just a little side note here, just because people have forgotten the goals in Iraq doesn't mean they don't exist.
And also it's interesting to note that there are so many people in this country screaming about the Africans and how we have to help them because their government is terrible when we are actually trying to help another part of world with very similar problems. To say that we need to help Africa while protesting our nation's efforts in Iraq is practially hypocracy. How is one to say that the death and suffering is more important in one area than another?
The fact of the matter is we are in Iraq for a reason so the next person who says were not... *cough cough* If you catch my drift. Haha Just kidding. But seriously. You. Me. Junk yard. 6 o'clock. Weeeeeeeee comic relief...........................NOW.
I have seen some things that are similar between both the vietnam war and the war in iraq. by reading this book i feel for the soldiers. i feel like i am experiencing what they are going through with them and i can imagine how hard this must be for them. this makes me think that this is the same concept for the men fighting in iraq today. I personally know a man fighting in iraq today and i have been praying for his safety.
Well Caligula, if you could read you would realize that I never mentioned total loss of life, only the total amount of American troop deaths and American troop casualties, which are two entirely different things. As for the United States triggering a war in the Middle east, may I remind you that the Middle East has been fought over constantly for thousands of years by Muslims, Christians, and Jewish people alike.
to whoever pidgeon is, "its not our country so why are we there," whatever you think about the war the reason for ever going to other countries to fight is to protect ourselves from something over there that is a threat or to help them somehow. the war in iraq was started because of both...but i just thought that statement was kinda stupid...sorry. i dont think that we as a country would start a war or go to another country just because we were bored and needed excitement.
well aimee we had two goals get rid of potenial threats and give democracy we achieved one but has it ocurred to you that maybe iraq doesnt want a democracy maybe they just want us out so they can help themselves
The thing that this book makes me think about is the fact that there area lot of young guys over there fighting and dying while we (the Americans and the government) sit over here debating each other on whether or not they should be there. Since we read the War Prayer article, I cannot help but think about the humanity of both sides... The enemy has the same amount invested in the war that we do: lots of lives, and they only differ in the side of the argument that they have taken. I think that if people really want to know how the Iraqis feel about us Americans being there, they should hop a plane and go ask one.
I don't know about that, Beyonce. Sure, there we were given reasons for going into Iraq, but that doesn't really mean that going was right, if you see what I mean. However, I'm not saying that we need to pull out now. The reasons for the war on terrorism were flimsy and are easy to pick at now, but the reasons to stay are very clear to me.
There is growing tension in the Middle East. Partially because of our actions, the Shi'ites and Sunnis are close to war. Not a civil war, but an international war. The area is very highly Islamic. Some nations are loyal to one side or the other. There is, at times, a feeling that we are standing on the edge of a very large, disasterous fit of bloodshed.
What's more is that the United States is not in good standing anymore. Many nations are beginning to distrust our money. We screwed up when we went to war without consulting the rest of the world. Our economy /is/ declining. We are becoming more and more hated. When you put it all together, some people claim that to pull out of Iraq would be to make ourselves out to be weak and open ourselves up as a target.
But back to Vietnam.
It's been claimed here by a good number of people that the war on terrorism has more support than Vietnam ever did, but I'm not sure. I was suprised that so many people here are for it. Everywhere else I've lived in the last few years was very highly against it. Sure, nobody is spitting on the veterans... but...
It does effect my feelings of the war in iraq because in the war of Iraq not men----boys were drafted into that war as a mandatory duty unlike the war in iraq the boys can choose. Either way the reason we are going to these wars is not right.
26 comments:
no
If it doesn't, it should. Read teh new Newsweek about how we have set up tribal leaders only to have them go back to archaic religious beliefs that okay killing women who have "shamed" the family,inflicting curfews on womenm, and revoking rights, such as driving. Are we really helping?
Is it really our war? Are we changing anything for anybody?
No? Why no?
I feel that the conflicts in Vietnam and Iraq are not in fact, very similar at all. First, the primary goal of the Iraqi conflict, locating WMDs, turned out to be unattainable. The second goal however, the destruction of Sadaam Hussein's reign of terror, was already accomplished. As of right now, U.S. troops are mainly quelling terrorist groups and civil unrest while training Iraqi peacekeeping forces to be able to handle their own country. As for Vietnam, the goals were much different, with the stop of communism being the greatest goal. Essentially, Vietnam was about America fighting another country's battle for them, while Iraq is about fighting a battle that the Iraqi people were unable to fight on their own. As for American loss of life, it was by far greater in Vietnam, reaching over 58000 deaths by it's end, and over 350000 casualties for U.S. troops alone. By comparison, 5 years in Iraq have caused just over 4000 deaths.
it isnt our country so why are we there? as far as i see all were doing is forcing them to bend to our beliefs
Here,Here, Pidgeon! But then are they (the terrorist groups) expecting us to bend to their beliefs....to be continued...
Even though the goals were different the general public opinion and failures were very similar!
I totally agree luella. If we dont help them then what is going to happen next to us. Back on the subject, this book does make me think about the war, but it hasn't changed my opinions of the war.
So, Hubbard, you believe that the Iraqi war is really helping the people? As far as I know, all we're doing is triggering a huge war in the middle east. I don't think our intentions are any more pure, either.
Also, you might want to correct your stats. Maybe you left off a zero? I doubt the total loss of life in Vietnam is lower than the total loss of American soldiers.
Even though the book does make me think about our situation in iraq, the comparison between the two is not really fair. The Vietnam War forced participation in missions that had little or no objectives. As the book said, they were simply going town to town burning what they felt like. At least in Iraq there is some order
Would you think the comparison was more fair if a draft was put into place?
I agree. I think that in vietnam, people were confused about why we were involved and what the main cause of the war was. However, with Iraq, people knew what started the war, but now the causes have strayed from our main purpose of going over there in the first place. With vietnam, soldiers weren't welcomed home as they are from Iraq; families want their men home from there. But the case wasn't the same when it came to Vietnam
if a draft was put in place then yes, there would be more of a comparison
I think the draft really was one of the major things that defined vietnam. There were kids who were really young, rebelious, and not want to be there. The Iraq war has not reached that point yet
I agree with Caligula. I do not think that there is any real reason to still be over in Iraq. After the 9/11 attacks we went over there to defend ourselves; but now, over 5 years later, all we are doing is causing conflict for the middle east.
The book does not really affect my opinion on the war. It does make me think more about it though. I didn't really think about what the soldiers were going through until I started reading this book. It puts a lot of things in perspective for me.
I think that the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq are quite similar. Neither are fought on American ground. Also, both are fought not because people were attacking us, but to free people from undemocratic rule rather it being communism during the Vietnam war or fight terrorism and the unfair treatment of the people of Iraq.
I've read a lot of comments regarding the nation's purpose in Iraq and found this article on America.gov so hopefully this will clear up any issues here:
“[W]e cannot ... give up on the hundreds of millions of ordinary moms and dads across the Middle East who want the hope and opportunity for their children that the terrorists and extremists seek to deny them, and that's a peaceful existence,” [-President George W. Bush]
The president welcomed the formation of a moderate coalition in Iraq as a counterweight to the violent extremists in the country.
“[A] moderate coalition signals to the vast majority of the people of Iraq that we have a unity government, that we're willing to reconcile our differences and work together, and in so doing will marginalize those who use violence to achieve political objectives,” Bush said.
[This is me again]
So just a little side note here, just because people have forgotten the goals in Iraq doesn't mean they don't exist.
And also it's interesting to note that there are so many people in this country screaming about the Africans and how we have to help them because their government is terrible when we are actually trying to help another part of world with very similar problems. To say that we need to help Africa while protesting our nation's efforts in Iraq is practially hypocracy. How is one to say that the death and suffering is more important in one area than another?
The fact of the matter is we are in Iraq for a reason so the next person who says were not... *cough cough* If you catch my drift. Haha Just kidding. But seriously. You. Me. Junk yard. 6 o'clock.
Weeeeeeeee comic relief...........................NOW.
I have seen some things that are similar between both the vietnam war and the war in iraq. by reading this book i feel for the soldiers. i feel like i am experiencing what they are going through with them and i can imagine how hard this must be for them. this makes me think that this is the same concept for the men fighting in iraq today. I personally know a man fighting in iraq today and i have been praying for his safety.
Well Caligula, if you could read you would realize that I never mentioned total loss of life, only the total amount of American troop deaths and American troop casualties, which are two entirely different things.
As for the United States triggering a war in the Middle east, may I remind you that the Middle East has been fought over constantly for thousands of years by Muslims, Christians, and Jewish people alike.
i agree we are there for a reason but not a good enough of one that merits five years
The Vietnam and Iraq wars are similar. We helped another country in the Vietnam war and we are helping another country today in the Iraq war.
to whoever pidgeon is, "its not our country so why are we there," whatever you think about the war the reason for ever going to other countries to fight is to protect ourselves from something over there that is a threat or to help them somehow. the war in iraq was started because of both...but i just thought that statement was kinda stupid...sorry. i dont think that we as a country would start a war or go to another country just because we were bored and needed excitement.
well aimee we had two goals get rid of potenial threats and give democracy we achieved one but has it ocurred to you that maybe iraq doesnt want a democracy maybe they just want us out so they can help themselves
The thing that this book makes me think about is the fact that there area lot of young guys over there fighting and dying while we (the Americans and the government) sit over here debating each other on whether or not they should be there. Since we read the War Prayer article, I cannot help but think about the humanity of both sides... The enemy has the same amount invested in the war that we do: lots of lives, and they only differ in the side of the argument that they have taken. I think that if people really want to know how the Iraqis feel about us Americans being there, they should hop a plane and go ask one.
I don't know about that, Beyonce. Sure, there we were given reasons for going into Iraq, but that doesn't really mean that going was right, if you see what I mean. However, I'm not saying that we need to pull out now. The reasons for the war on terrorism were flimsy and are easy to pick at now, but the reasons to stay are very clear to me.
There is growing tension in the Middle East. Partially because of our actions, the Shi'ites and Sunnis are close to war. Not a civil war, but an international war. The area is very highly Islamic. Some nations are loyal to one side or the other. There is, at times, a feeling that we are standing on the edge of a very large, disasterous fit of bloodshed.
What's more is that the United States is not in good standing anymore. Many nations are beginning to distrust our money. We screwed up when we went to war without consulting the rest of the world. Our economy /is/ declining. We are becoming more and more hated. When you put it all together, some people claim that to pull out of Iraq would be to make ourselves out to be weak and open ourselves up as a target.
But back to Vietnam.
It's been claimed here by a good number of people that the war on terrorism has more support than Vietnam ever did, but I'm not sure. I was suprised that so many people here are for it. Everywhere else I've lived in the last few years was very highly against it. Sure, nobody is spitting on the veterans... but...
It does effect my feelings of the war in iraq because in the war of Iraq not men----boys were drafted into that war as a mandatory duty unlike the war in iraq the boys can choose. Either way the reason we are going to these wars is not right.
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