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Eng. IV Assignments, information
Frankenstein
APE IV due dates, assignments, etc.
Mar. 28 Movie, Gattica or (my choice-- Mary Shelley bio) Begin Frankenstein April 1-Blog April 2 Chapters 1-4, Frankenstein April 3 Chapter 5 and essays in class April 7 Through Chapter 7 April 9 Through Vol II, Chap. I & II April 21 Through Chap. III of VOLUME III Extra credit for your own copy! In-class writing MC practice
APE III due dates and assignments
Arg. Against Nat'l ID Cards, Ques. 3 p. 616, TIA Mar. 24 MC Practice, 5 Steps, p. 247 Mar. 28 Arg. Paper Peer Reviews April 1 April 2-Begin The Things They Carried ACT Prep Course April 4 FINAL DRAFT ARG. PAPER APRIL 7 MAP TESTING April 8-10 TTTC through p 38 April 11 TTTC through p 61 by April 14 APE III TEST MAY 14 Final Book review May
We've already covered some of the relationship between Martha and Cross, but what is the purpose Martha serves? Why does the book open with Cross's obsession? What do you think that symbolizes?
I think that O'brien uses Martha to tie Cross to a world outside of the war. When Cross thinks about martha he reminds the reader that all of the soldiers have someone at home that they are missing. It's is a remider that there was life before the war and that life also goes on during the war.
I think that him thinking of Martha shows what kind of things are actually going through the soldiers' minds as they are fighting. It also brings on the new perspective of things on how he wonders about every detail he is given because it is all he has.
I agree with pam. It was also to show how when someone misses something so much, they kind of obsess over it. It takes there mind off of what is going on around them. And how probably lots of people didnt have there minds completely focused in on the war
martha is what he no longer has. THe innocence that can't not be found in a war. He watns to see purity again and the idea of Martha as a virgin gives him the believe that there is still purity and peace in the world and obsessing over her and carrying her with him is him carrying hope and dreams of a life beyond war.
I agree. It is a reminder of what everyone has left behind. Cross also has to deal with the constant reminder that she does not love him as he loves her. That is his "thing he carries". Something like that would be "heavy" to carry, especially when you are far away from home.
I agree too...the author includes this to show readers that these are real people with lives, and to contrast the atmosphere of war in a foreign country with that of what we know as real life.
But why did he burn his pictures of her? Was it only because he thought his obsession with her caused him to be less of leader to his men? Or was it because he realized nothing was pure anymore?
Martha may be an overall symbol, but Calkin is right. A huge part of her significance has to be in Cross's development.
I think his obsession with Martha is partially escapism. He needed something else to keep his mind on. Something normal, if not "pure." He used her to ward off the realities of the war and his responsibility.
i think that deep down he was burning it because he realized nothing in llife was pure. That nothing was as it seemed. The man who would be last person you think would die was killed. He was living in this dream world in his head where martha would fall in love with him, the purest women in the world. But watching someone die brought him back to reality. He realized she will probably never love him, and she wasnt as pure as his mind made her out to be. I think we wasnt quite ready to full except this. So he told himself the reason he was burning it, was because it caused Lavender to die
I think that he burnt her pictures becasue he felt that it was his way of saying sorry to the soldier who lost his life because he feels that it was because of his lack of concentration that caused the soldier to die. He wants to think that if he rids himself of her images that this kind of distraction will not happen again
yes. he knows Martha will never love him. he decides he needs to focus on the war and be the commander he was trained to be; not an emotional wreck. war is no place for emotion.
I think the purpose of Martha was to give the reader that Cross had a hard letting go of the past. He is in Vietnam and obsessing over this girl because he does not want to think about reality. Then once he sees Lavender died, he actually has to stand up and take charge over his team. He has to let go of his emotional baggage. However, it also showed that he has a hard time letting go of Mathra because later, when Cross and the narrator met up, he still spoke of Martha and how he still loved her.
This comparison between the two mentions of Martha, symbolizes how one can love someone so deeply, without ever receiving that same amount of love and being ok with it. It is passion, torture, and you are always at war with yourself because you want this emotion to go away but it can't. Which can go back to how some feel about Vietnam, they want to get rid of the pain from Vietnam but they can't.
I think that the purpose of the character of Martha was to show the reader that cross has not one, but two wars to fight.i think it also puts the soliders on a more identifiable level. to show the reader that soiders arn't super hero's. they are normal men who have more on their mind than war. they had to leave all of their issues behind, so they learn to live off of memory.
Martha serves as Cross' only connection with the outside world. He his holding on to that little piece of hope that she would someday love him, and that is what keeps him going on. When you have someone to love it's always easier to keep on wanting to live, because you know that there is something to live for, and if you don't make it out alive you have something to lose. It's so easy to give up when the going gets tough, but to know that there is someone out there routing for you to succeed that is reason enough to keep on trecking.
Martha serves to give the reader a sense of the lives that the soldiers have back home. Each one of them has people that they love back in the States. Martha helps the reader to see that reality and to know how much soldiers can truly miss their loved ones.
Martha meant a piece of home he could still remember but once he burned martha's picture he maybe wanted to be in the war without thinking of her because he already got one of his men killed.
16 comments:
I think that O'brien uses Martha to tie Cross to a world outside of the war. When Cross thinks about martha he reminds the reader that all of the soldiers have someone at home that they are missing. It's is a remider that there was life before the war and that life also goes on during the war.
I think that him thinking of Martha shows what kind of things are actually going through the soldiers' minds as they are fighting. It also brings on the new perspective of things on how he wonders about every detail he is given because it is all he has.
I agree with pam. It was also to show how when someone misses something so much, they kind of obsess over it. It takes there mind off of what is going on around them. And how probably lots of people didnt have there minds completely focused in on the war
martha is what he no longer has. THe innocence that can't not be found in a war. He watns to see purity again and the idea of Martha as a virgin gives him the believe that there is still purity and peace in the world and obsessing over her and carrying her with him is him carrying hope and dreams of a life beyond war.
I agree. It is a reminder of what everyone has left behind. Cross also has to deal with the constant reminder that she does not love him as he loves her. That is his "thing he carries". Something like that would be "heavy" to carry, especially when you are far away from home.
I agree too...the author includes this to show readers that these are real people with lives, and to contrast the atmosphere of war in a foreign country with that of what we know as real life.
But why did he burn his pictures of her? Was it only because he thought his obsession with her caused him to be less of leader to his men? Or was it because he realized nothing was pure anymore?
Martha may be an overall symbol, but Calkin is right. A huge part of her significance has to be in Cross's development.
I think his obsession with Martha is partially escapism. He needed something else to keep his mind on. Something normal, if not "pure." He used her to ward off the realities of the war and his responsibility.
i think that deep down he was burning it because he realized nothing in llife was pure. That nothing was as it seemed. The man who would be last person you think would die was killed. He was living in this dream world in his head where martha would fall in love with him, the purest women in the world. But watching someone die brought him back to reality. He realized she will probably never love him, and she wasnt as pure as his mind made her out to be. I think we wasnt quite ready to full except this. So he told himself the reason he was burning it, was because it caused Lavender to die
I think that he burnt her pictures becasue he felt that it was his way of saying sorry to the soldier who lost his life because he feels that it was because of his lack of concentration that caused the soldier to die. He wants to think that if he rids himself of her images that this kind of distraction will not happen again
yes. he knows Martha will never love him. he decides he needs to focus on the war and be the commander he was trained to be; not an emotional wreck. war is no place for emotion.
I think the purpose of Martha was to give the reader that Cross had a hard letting go of the past. He is in Vietnam and obsessing over this girl because he does not want to think about reality. Then once he sees Lavender died, he actually has to stand up and take charge over his team. He has to let go of his emotional baggage.
However, it also showed that he has a hard time letting go of Mathra because later, when Cross and the narrator met up, he still spoke of Martha and how he still loved her.
This comparison between the two mentions of Martha, symbolizes how one can love someone so deeply, without ever receiving that same amount of love and being ok with it. It is passion, torture, and you are always at war with yourself because you want this emotion to go away but it can't. Which can go back to how some feel about Vietnam, they want to get rid of the pain from Vietnam but they can't.
I think that the purpose of the character of Martha was to show the reader that cross has not one, but two wars to fight.i think it also puts the soliders on a more identifiable level. to show the reader that soiders arn't super hero's. they are normal men who have more on their mind than war. they had to leave all of their issues behind, so they learn to live off of memory.
Martha serves as Cross' only connection with the outside world. He his holding on to that little piece of hope that she would someday love him, and that is what keeps him going on. When you have someone to love it's always easier to keep on wanting to live, because you know that there is something to live for, and if you don't make it out alive you have something to lose. It's so easy to give up when the going gets tough, but to know that there is someone out there routing for you to succeed that is reason enough to keep on trecking.
Martha serves to give the reader a sense of the lives that the soldiers have back home. Each one of them has people that they love back in the States. Martha helps the reader to see that reality and to know how much soldiers can truly miss their loved ones.
Martha meant a piece of home he could still remember but once he burned martha's picture he maybe wanted to be in the war without thinking of her because he already got one of his men killed.
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